On The Morality of Exploitation

When we write about the morality of exploitation we are talking about the way humans use animals as a resource if possible i would like not to talk about the use of animals in various world religions as religion is extremely difficult to discuss without people becoming passionate for this is the nature of religion.

To keep things short and sweet those who favor the use of animals as a resource tend to believe

non human animals are not morally equal to humans and therefore can be used morally for whatever purpose the human sees fit.

While those who oppose the use of animals as a resource tend to believe

All life is morally equal and therefor any forum of exploitation should be avoided if possible.

This is simplified but i believe it is the base disagreement between the respective groups.

Some ground rules for this discussion
There is literally thousands of years of realvant philosophical thought that support both sides of the argument. <just a interesting fact>
Respect the person behind the text even if you disagree with their views.
Refrain from profanity
Try to keep an open mind after all the point of any discussion is to become more educated on views that differ from your own.
Also fair warning this particular topic can become rather gruesome.

This is not a post.

I started with the assumption all life is equal in the moral sense but then i started thinking about animals that can survive without feeding on other life and realized that if all life is equal this type of life is probably the holder of the moral high ground as it does not utilize other life. So given all life is of equal value I submit life which exploits other life in a one sided manner is less moral than life which does not exploit other life. Humanity is without a doubt an exploitive race for a human cannot exist without exploiting another life form. As humans we are also capable of conceiving of moral systems and therefore we often try to live within a moral system. So the question is as a human who believes all life is morally equal how can I live a moral existence given I need to take advantage of other life to continuing living. The first option I have is to end my life for it is more acceptable to take one life out of existence than it would be for me to take many. However this is unappealing for I have a desire to live that is self-evident. I could do my best to minimize the suffering my life creates by only exploiting a certain sub-genre of life. Finally I could stop viewing the life of a tree differently than I view the life of a human or ant and just attempt to minimize the suffering of living beings all together. This third option is particularly appealing as all life is equal so by minimizing the total suffering of all living beings I am taking the most moral path I can as a human. So how do I do this then? I suppose I could exterminate all life except life that does not require other life to exist but again this violates my will to life for then there would be no suffering for the remainder of time. However I have observed life forms can change over time in extreme ways and therefor it is conceivable that this life which would be spared might one day change enough that it also causes suffering. Truly it is tragic that we as humans comprehend morality but cannot change the order of life. But perhaps with enough time we could change ourselves into a more morally acceptable being, a perfect being. Unfortunately just wishing to be a moral being is not enough to cause the change for natural change is created by chance and cemented by its usefulness to the continuity of life. Therefore assuming the above to be true it is a human’s duty not just to exist but to strive for a better existence where we may one day live in harmony with other living beings. I believe this will be achieved through extensive research and genetic manipulation which can only be done by continuing to use animals as a resource.

JAMESTHEJRAGON wrote:This is not a post.

it provides the format for a larger discussion i have just posted my view on the subject feel free to post your own or refute me.

No i mean the thing i just posted that was not a post.

JAMESTHEJRAGON wrote:No i mean the thing i just posted that was not a post.

then why post it i find you posting random posts like this one to explain how pointless your posts are is completely stupid. I do believe i will start deleting posts that are irrelevant or just completely useless to the situation at hand

I do believe that it's wrong, but in order for us to survive and thrive, we need to exploit someone. Not everyone can live a carefree life; someone or something has to pay for it.

Very interesting to read, although a bit heavy

- the part with how humans should strive to become better lifeforms actually remind me of the movie "The day the Earth stood still" with Keanu Reeves. In this movie, an alien comes to Earth to convince humanity to change their ways of life, because if they don't, Earth will die. It's not before the last moment the humanity choose to change their life...


Anyways, I personally see humans as morally dominant to other animals... Although this doesn't mean that we can do whatever we want to them, but if is to the good of minkind, I would use the animals. I once thought about why I believe this, and then thought about, what would happen if, say, a new way more advanced lifeform came to Earth... Would I then allow them to use mankind for their own good? Of course not... But why then? Then I thought about how I would act, if a house was burning, and I could see 3 people inside... A chinese, a middleeastern and a scandinavian... and I only had the chance to save 1 of them... Here I would probably take the scandinavian (no, I'm not a racist or anything), because I'm scandinavian... And I realised we tend to think of those who resemble ourselves the most as higher than those who resembles ourselves less... And I think this is why I think of humans as morally dominant to other animals....

The question now is, how far can we exploit other animals for our own benefit?

I suppose many of us like a big fat stake every now and then on the dinnertable... But is it really necessary for us to eat meat at all? There are other sources of protein, and in fact it would be more efficient to just eat plants instead of giving the plants to the animals first, and then eat the animals...
I don't think I would ever stop eating meat... Even if I don't have to... And I think this is because somewhere in my mind, I think "As long as they don't suffer and don't know, they don't care"

However, there are sometimes cases where hurting animals can benifit us...
When a new medicine is being produced, there are different tests on animals.... One of these tests are called LD50, which stands for "leathal dose 50%", and means that if we give a group of animals this drug, how much do we need to give them until 50% of them die... And this process can be quite painful for the animals, if the drug has painful sideeffects in high doses (like paracetamole in headache pills) By doing so, we're testing how toxic the drug is, so that we can avoid giving too much to patients...
What do you guys think about this?

I still think that exploitation is necessary for the lifestyles that we choose to live. Just because I eat meat, however, does not mean that I agree with their suffering. Suffering animals is a terrible thought, yet nobody really stops to think of how many animals don't suffer. Only a handful of farms actually still use very brutal means of killing animals, yet everyones seems to think that because the animals die, they must be in pain. If an animal never truely experiences what it's like to live freely, they would not know what it felt like. So, if animals were born into a farm, they'd never know what it's like to be self sufficient.

Also, my theory on this is out of sight, out of mind. I don't really care if the animals suffer or not, personally, because if I had the choice of my suffering or it, i'd choose it any day. I view animals such as the food chain does. We are at the top, therefor we don't have to respect the animals' feelings and opinions as much as our own.

according to the Catholic and Jewish religions, God put creatures on earth so Man could enjoy them and benefit from them. Just sayin.

Personelly I have no qualms about killing and eating animals. They have no perception of "enjoyment" or "the meaning of life". We, as humans, have an insatiable thirst for knowledge and a search for the meaning of life.

Thats one side.

On the other, animals know "fear" and "death". They know pain, and they know how to live. We would not kill humans with these same emotions, so how can we kill them, or even justify it?

All in all, this is a very deep topic that has been going on for 2000+ years and will be going on for 2000+ more years. So what I say matters little.

I'm pretty much with Kevo on this one.

While I don't go out and hunt on the weekends (nothing against anyone who does), I do enjoy a nice steak.
While I would feel bad for the animals if I saw them hurting, truth is, as harsh as it is: I don't really care as long as it benefits me.
This is the view point for most of the human race, even against each other. Like I said, it's not a good thing, but it is a natural thing.
I won't get into any religious points about this, because frankly, I have none. I state my views from just a human stance.

In all truth, we are no different than the other animals of our planet, we all are made up of the same stuff. Just because we are superior in mind does not mean we are more than animals. No animal cares if they consume another, so why should we. A lion killing a gazelle is a natural as us hunting a deer is. Now, slaughter if different, mass massacre is not a natural thing, we should just raise them on farms and humanely kill them. I believe that we should do the natural thing, the thing all creatures do and were made to do. We were made to eat both plants and livestock and we may do as we wish. But doing so as we wish in an unnatural way is not right, it should be done like most carnivores do, in a quick fashion. I also believe what we are using the livestock for it important, killing a cattle solely for hide is wrong, eat it's meat too and it is morally correct.

In a nutshell, I believe it is morally correct to consume other animals as long as it is done humanely and we use every part of that animal, throwing out any part of a animal is a disgrace. Throwing out leftover chicken although is not as it's already dead and cannot be undone.