Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

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Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by ChaosTheoryJRH on 5/22/2016, 6:32 pm

Hello everyone.
Most of you know me, some of you don't.
I'm Chaos, or Justin. I used to be an Admin here.

Before we begin, please see this thread from a while back:
http://oasis-smp.forumotion.com/t9592p25-new-name-for-guide#47118

Introductions out of the way, we need to have a discussion. When I was staff here, our titles went through a few changes. We used to have OwnerTeam and SuperAdmins once, but that was done away with because of a) Airlay came back, and b) the redundancy of the title [SuperAdmin].

What most of you know as JrMod used to be known as Guide. I'll be the first to admit that Guides were not there to guide anyone.
Guide was basically a rank to see how well you'd do as a member of staff, you were there to help people and to monitor the server and it's activity.

We had a discussion once about changing the name of Guide, and I was one of the biggest opponents to the title JrMod. As you can see from the thread I posted, JrMod actually got zero votes. While Monitor had the most.

The connotation behind "Jr" is that of someone who would do duties related to that of what a Mod does. However this isn't the case.
Of course both ranks help people and response to griefs, but so does Admin.
A Mod moderates the server, a Mod implements warps and does world edits when needed.
An Admin is the administrator. They have access to console and can edit and control plugins.
A JrMod doesn't do anything related to that. A JrMod is here to help the community on a more personal level. More of a one on one type of help.

I am by no means putting down JrMods as people or as staff. JrMods are wonderful parts of the community and they do their jobs well.
I am however saying that the title itself is a complete misdirection of who they are, and one that honestly upsets me.
Myself and plenty of other staff discussed this many times and many hours of debate were had on its behalf, and we ultimately came to this conclusion. Guide was to stay Guide, and if it had to change, it was to change to Monitor.

I understand that this Oasis is a new generation of Oasis basically, but do the same roles not apply?
Again, not putting down anyone or pointing fingers, I'm just putting this out there.
I won't be doing a poll, because I find polls lead to unnecessary bickering and too many "I told you!" moments.

I would however like everyone to think about what I've said.
Consider my viewpoint and feel free to share your own.
Thanks.

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by Shnoork on 5/22/2016, 7:09 pm

I remember when this change was implemented. There is alot that goes into a name and quite frankly, Jr Mod is kind of a wussy name. For all the work that goes into even getting it, you would expect more than being branded as a child would.

Personally, I always liked guide better, but as Chaos said its not exactly relevent to the position. When I first joined I didnt even know they were staff. In fact, I recall that being a factor in its eventual rebranding.

I think whether it be to monitor or back to guide or WHATEVER, it may be time to change this up a bit. Give those gals and gents who put in so much work for us a title that expresses that a bit better. A title to be truly proud of.

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by Zwall99 on 5/22/2016, 8:39 pm

I said some similar things when the change happened: Thoughts on Staff Rank Names

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by dtfgator on 5/22/2016, 8:57 pm

100% agree with Chaos here. I think "Warden" could be a good name that is pretty reflective of the position.

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by Hyunyoung on 5/22/2016, 10:37 pm

I don't really mind the name of the rank either way, but I feel like warden is a bit awkward seeing as how it has the connotation of being in charge of prisoners. :/  And about what Chaos said originally, JrMod is supposedly a "staff member of the people"; if that's the case I don't really think the community could connect with a warden. Hell, the prefix itself "Junior" is much less threatening. I see where you're coming from, Chaos, in that the names should be representative of the roles (and the roles certainly have shifted since the past), but the name JrMod really does (for me) tell me what that person is, a new staff member. Most importantly (again, for me) is that the name includes Mod, which is used almost universally for staff on minecraft servers. Anyways, seeing posts similar to these come and go I've noted that there seems to be no change of the name of JrMod because there's really no name that seems like a good change (not to say that Warden is a bad suggestion or anything). It's just that the name JrMod seems to do its job fine as it is. But, like I said, to me it really doesn't matter either way, and I'd like to see how others feel about this. Just my thoughts here anyways :P

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by BroadStreetBully on 5/22/2016, 10:43 pm

Silverarceus wrote:but I feel like warden is a bit awkward seeing as how it has the connotation of being in charge of prisoners. :/

Are you implying you're not a prisoner?

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by Hyunyoung on 5/22/2016, 10:47 pm

BroadStreetBully wrote:
Silverarceus wrote:but I feel like warden is a bit awkward seeing as how it has the connotation of being in charge of prisoners. :/

Are you implying you're not a prisoner?

No sir, I didn't mean to imply... Well, forget I said anything, I'll get back to my chilli-cooking and rock-crushing ;-;

Spoiler:


Last edited by Silverarceus on 5/22/2016, 10:49 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : memes)

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by izumi4kona on 5/22/2016, 11:15 pm

[Reading my old post under the guest acc]
[cringing]

There were other names brought up at the time of voting, but I forget what most were at this point. JrMod is good in that it includes the universal "mod" title, but it also reminds me of Weenie Hut Jrs now.


JrMint tho

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by ChaosTheoryJRH on 5/22/2016, 11:18 pm

Warden does sound a bit harsh lol.

Like I said before, my answer to this would be Monitor.
I understand Mod and Admin are universally known ranks in MC, but why do we really need to be like everyone else?

We explain that Monitor (or whatever name) is staff. If people choose not to listen to that, is that the kind of people we want on the server anyway?
That's like telling someone to not build near spawn, or too close to someone else, and they do it anyway.
Their punishment is that they are either banned, or their build is removed.
I see the staff ranking the same way.

The main problem with JrMod is the Jr.
I feel that Jr. shows a lack of respect, which is the opposite of what we are conveying.
Jr.Mod just makes me think "Not good enough to be Mod" or "Not really a Mod" instead of thinking that it's just the rank before Mod, it feels like a Mods underling.

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by Shnoork on 5/22/2016, 11:23 pm

Why not just Staff? Its direct, to the point, clear as day, and it doesnt denote superiority or inferiority to other staff ranks. It would just be plain ol staff for people who do staffy things.

Or would that be too heavy handed?

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by ChaosTheoryJRH on 5/22/2016, 11:35 pm

Shnoork wrote:Why not just Staff? Its direct, to the point, clear as day, and it doesnt denote superiority or inferiority to other staff ranks. It would just be plain ol staff for people who do staffy things.

Or would that be too heavy handed?

On one hand staff sounds good.
It's to the point, and it has a level of professionalism to it.

On the other hand, players could get confused between the differences between the staff rank, and the Mod or Admin ranks.
"Are Mods and Admins not staff" - confused people.

The way to fix that would be to rename all staff to Staff, which obviously isn't a good thing.
Admins honestly require more experience than Mods, who require more experience than (insert JrMod/Monitor/Guide/whatever).

I'd like to see a revision to the title myself, however I am always open to debate of course.

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by Shnoork on 5/22/2016, 11:45 pm

^ Going off of that, I think the simplicity of it is what sets it apart. With this, somebody is "just staff" (yall are way more than "just staff, btw), somebody whos purpose is to help peeps, wheras mod and admin are more specific and therefore express more authority. My only concession is that it seems very unimaginative. Still better than jr mod, in my opinion.

Lets be honest, most people wouldnt assume this means mods and admins arent staff. Maybe to someone who has never heard of multiplayer games before but thats about it. It would be a very easy clarification.

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by ChaosTheoryJRH on 5/22/2016, 11:51 pm

I actually agree with you.
And I do feel [Staff] would be a good replacement for [JrMod]

My only real complaint about [Staff] is that the name isn't obvious as to where it belong in the chain of staff, which may not be a bad thing really.
It could put an end to the players that get in trouble with a (JrMod/Staff/blahblah) and run off to a Mod or Admin to complain.
Just saying [Staff] banned me, or did this or that to me, sounds silly and most people would realize that.
I like it.

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by izumi4kona on 5/23/2016, 12:21 am

ChaosTheoryJRH wrote:
We explain that Monitor (or whatever name) is staff. If people choose not to listen to that, is that the kind of people we want on the server anyway?
That's like telling someone to not build near spawn, or too close to someone else, and they do it anyway.
Their punishment is that they are either banned, or their build is removed.
I see the staff ranking the same way.

Tfw no matter how many times you explain or how bold/colorful/obnoxious you make the warnings when you enter the biome regions, people still build near the portals e - e

I like [Staff]. Staff and Mod sound kind of the same, but that not might be a bad thing.


tfw people think [SinTrash] is staff
I love you all, but I am not who you need fam
Your lord and savior is HealthMagazine


ChaosTheoryJRH wrote:Guide
RIP 2K13

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by OsgaTharp on 5/23/2016, 1:12 am

Plenty of good points in this thread. I think the one point I like about jrmod the most is the clear line of command going from jrmod to mod. New players can quickly recognize that jrmod is below mod, and will know that the person is staff just by having 'mod' in their name. It's meant for clarity which was one of the big issues with 'Guide'. I agree when you look deep into the rank and meaning that there are some hit and misses when it comes to what they do, but you don't doubt they are indeed staff and should be respected. 

The term Junior simply means they are younger or a lower rank compared to others, and of course its going to lead to a varied amount of respect. If we told a guest that 'Monitor' or 'Guide' is under mod then the same thing is going to happen except jrmod immediately lets them know the rank difference. I don't think the problem of disrespecting based on rank would go away by renaming the rank.

Also, I don't like the idea of changing it to 'Staff' because it is a term that means all staff ranks. It would be confusing to talk about, and would be a terminology nightmare.

Overall, I'm against the idea of changing the rank name again, but these are just my opinions.

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by Hyunyoung on 5/23/2016, 7:17 am

I like the Junior part. It's kind of humbling in a way. I feel it's a good indicator of the midpoint between a knowledgeable player and someone who can actually ban your ass. And from my experience anyways, they seem like mini mods anyways (sure they have less perms but all staff do the same basic thing in the end - ban). The name works for me because JrMods are literally junior mods. At least, until they evolve @-@


Now that I think about it perhaps I do care about the prefix after all.




also
MONITOR:



Last edited by Silverarceus on 5/23/2016, 10:35 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by ThunderHorse on 5/23/2016, 7:33 am

I have been keeping quiet on this subject then I thougjt of a possible nane. Security 


It doesbt sound to harsh and all that other stuff. But JrMod does seem to fit in my opinion as it shows your on the way to becoming a mod. I see all your points on everything said and some make sense and others don't.

If JrMod is going to be changed I feel Security fits it the best

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by izumi4kona on 5/23/2016, 8:47 am

ThunderHorse wrote:I have been keeping quiet on this subject then I thougjt of a possible nane. Security 


It doesbt sound to harsh and all that other stuff. But JrMod does seem to fit in my opinion as it shows your on the way to becoming a mod. I see all your points on everything said and some make sense and others don't.

If JrMod is going to be changed I feel Security fits it the best

....Next time I'm griefed I want to call for "Security" now, whether this name is implemented or not xD

Spoiler:

Also this came to mind

Never forget

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by Revilo410 on 5/23/2016, 11:58 am

If we look at traditional ranks for online servers, forums etc. We have Mods and Admins. The duty of a Moderator is to watch over the thing in question, make sure everyone is behaving, and make sure everything is in order. On forums they have to move posts to the correct places, make sure rules are obeyed etc. Therefore on a Minecraft server a Moderator is someone who watches over the chat, makes sure everyone is following the rules, as well as making sure that things are correct; including in our case, World Guard regions, member applications etc. Therefore it makes complete sense to have the rank before this as JrMod. It is the junior version of the moderator. They watch over the chat and players, make sure everyone is abiding by the rules, but don't have the extra responsibilities of controlling member apps, regions, promotions etc. Hence the Junior bit. It in no way demeans their rank, it purely shows that they aren't quite a full on server moderator controlling the everyday actions, they are a slightly more community related form that makes sure things are moderated on a more basic level. The job of the admins is to ensure that the server is updated, plugins are installed, and also to make any of the technical decisions about the server.

This then gives the intuitive flow:

JrMod (Watches over the chat, griefs, general player activity)

Mod (Fulfils the rest of the duties of a moderator including making sure people are correct ranks etc.)

Admin (Makes sure things work so that the other staff can do their jobs respectively (And ofc the admins do need to moderate the server as well) and that players have a well managed server to play on.)

So what about the alternatives?

We could use Monitor but its not immediately clear its a staff rank, in the same way Guide was.

We could go back to Guide but it really doesn't describe the role at all.

Minimod sounds a lot worse than JrMod.

Warden sounds like we're in a jail :P

Security once again doesn't fully describe the role I dont think.

And Staff like has been said would just confuse people into thinking that Mods and Admins might not be staff.

Now don't get me wrong, I realise JrMod isn't the perfect name either, but for me it is the best of the options :P

So please keep any suggestions you have coming, but as of yet my vote lies with the JrMints :P

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by Raybiii on 5/23/2016, 12:28 pm

What about the name watcher 
Jrmods dont have all the abilties that mods or adminsbdo like WE but they are here to monitor the server and see if players are fallowing the rules

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by Shnoork on 5/23/2016, 12:29 pm

Personally, my only problem is that I think Jr. Mod sounds plain dumb. If I may call attention to the AMAZING show Arrested Development. Tobias Fünke is a therapist and an analyst. He decides to get business cards printed out to combine the two names in the coolest way possible and settles on analrapist.

Lets not have any analrapists on our server, shall we? Sure, Jr Mod is a functional name, but I think sometimes functionality isnt exactly what we need.

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by Hyunyoung on 5/23/2016, 12:55 pm

Raybiii wrote:What about the name watcher 
Jrmods dont have all the abilties that mods or adminsbdo like WE but they are here to monitor the server and see if players are fallowing the rules

WATCHERS:

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by ChaosTheoryJRH on 5/23/2016, 1:35 pm

I'm glad to see that everyone is still capable of intelligent conversation.
We may not agree on the name but at least we can talk about it like mature people.

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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by Hyunyoung on 5/23/2016, 1:45 pm

ChaosTheoryJRH wrote:I'm glad to see that everyone is still capable of intelligent conversation.
We may not agree on the name but at least we can talk about it like mature people.


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Re: Real talk about [JrMod] for a moment.

Post by John_Crichton on 5/23/2016, 1:52 pm

How about Monitor. It's succinct, and pretty obvious as to what the person does, monitors chat and griefing activity.

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