'PG13' server

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'PG13' server

Post by mickdude2 on 7/24/2014, 2:24 am

Definition of PG13 wrote:PG-13 indicates there's material in the film that may not be suitable for children under the age of 13. A PG-13 movie could go "beyond the PG rating in theme, violence, nudity, sensuality, language, adult activities or other elements, but does not reach the restricted R category." The MPAA will give this rating to films with drug use or more than brief nudity, although the nudity in a PG-13 is not sexual in nature. In addition, the MPAA states "there may be depictions of violence in a PG-13 movie, but generally not both realistic and extreme or persistent violence. A motion picture's single use of one of the harsher sexually-derived words, though only as an expletive, initially requires at least a PG-13 rating."

Oasis' interpretation wrote:No more than one swear word. Absolutely no harsher sexually derived words, even as an expletive. Absolutely no discussion concerning sensuality, nudity, or language.

Yes, I'm bringing this up, and yes, I feel like it needs to be discussed, rather than swept under the rug and hushed up. 

Fidel and I were recently reminiscing about the old days, and having a good conversation too. We did, however, let slip 'f***'. We were immediately blasted for 'foul language'. Now, I would understand if we said this in front of a small child, and would probably apologize, but this was between two friends, and the only other active person at the time was Rigo, who he himself pointed out, was 16 and mature. This has become an increasingly risque topic recently, and staff refuse to address it directly, so I'm doing it here.

First off, the above quotes. PG13 means something vastly different then how its interpreted here. So, I'm proposing we change our server rating from PG13 to PG- not only to better define our rules, but also to make it clear to players. 

PG Definition wrote:A PG-rated film may not be suitable for children. The MPAA says a PG-rated should be checked out by parents before allowing younger children to see the movie. There could be some profanity, some violence, or brief nudity, however there will not be any drug use in a PG film.

Secondly, I'd like to propose that we change Section IX, subsection b, 'Chat Etiquette', to reflect these changes.

Section IX, subsection b wrote:b. Chat Etiquette
Oasis is home to a wide range of ages, so we ask that you try to keep chat suitable and appropriate for all players. Swearing and some MINOR sexually explicit content are allowed on Oasis, but you should keep in mind that it is only allowed at an acceptable (PG-13) level. If someone tells you that they feel uncomfortable with the level of swearing or sexual content, you are to stop immediately. Excessive swearing or other explicit content/language is punishable by a kick or even a ban. Socially unacceptable terms such as 'getting raped' are also not allowed on Oasis. Oasis prides itself on the inclusion of everyone and we ask that you try not to make anyone feel uncomfortable or discluded. Please also note that you must use the English language when talking in general chat. Feel free to use other languages in private messages, but if you're going to talk to the server as a whole, make sure they all can understand what you're saying.

I suggest explicitly saying that 'swearing must be kept to a minimum, and all f words are banned'

I'm not against this rule, I just don't like how it has been changing in the past few months without anyone being notified.

Edit: I also notice the forum censor. Would've been nice to have been notified about that.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by Shnoork on 7/24/2014, 9:11 am

This actually came to mind a few weeks ago for me, but I never really read into it that much (the difference between PG and PG13). Now that you point it out it does seem that the PG rating better fits the server we have going at the moment. However, regardless of rating, there is staff discretion nonetheless. The rating only really tells a new player what they can initially expect to see on the server, it doesnt dictate that we maintain that rating. With the staff discretion rule, it doesnt matter if what youve said or done falls under the umbrella of whatever rating is in play. If they say to stop and respectfully asking then to reconsider doesnt change their mind, their word is law. If no staff are online, its simply a matter of respecting the other players currently around, basically the same thing but you get in trouble for it later rather than sooner.

I see what your saying here, that a different rating would better describe our group dynamic, but I personally feel it doesnt make much of a difference to most of the people whom it applies to. If anything, keeping it PG13 will encourage more kiddies to join the server because it makes them feel like big people even though theyre like, seven years old. Just an example.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by Heisenberg on 7/24/2014, 10:25 am

One PG-13 film I saw about 2 years ago was Total Recall. This film not only had the F word, but showed a topless lady with 3 breasts. There were 10 year olds in the cinema listening and watching all this (Great film btw). We always say we're PG-13 and I personally let F bombs be dropped as long as A) It's not directed at a person, country, race, etc. B) It's not overused. Saying something like "Oh f*** I just lost my days work to lava", whilst not needed, won't get a kick from me. However saying "F*** the Queen", whilst an interesting proposition, will get a kick. If players say they're uncomfortable with the language, then I expect players not to use it, the same way players would stop talking about a subject if it offends players. The situation you described (Assuming it wasn't used in an offensive context) would have been fine, IMO.

We have a lot of players saying it's PG-13, and others saying no swearing is allowed at all (Even 'minor' ones like Sh** and Bi***). I've sworn a few times and I've seen a lot of staff do it too. Heck, Mad's first words as Owner were "WHAT THE F***". I've taken the assumption it is PG-13 and think we do need to be clear and have some clarity on the matter, as we've allowed the F word for a while and I'm not sure when/if that changed.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by Gweedo358 on 7/24/2014, 11:05 am

Just a couple of points I need you to understand the first one: Typing F*** is not a slip... I never will be. YOU typed it. You didn't yell it out of a reaction of something painful or surprise in your house. You thought it sent the signal to your fingers and typed it, your mind saw it,  and you still hit <enter> That is not a slip.

     Second point is this to get kicked from the server from a staff member is just a warning to get you to realize what you are doing isn't liked by the staff member who kicked you. We also have something called staff discretion its in the rules. If a staff member feels strongly about a situation they have the power and the right to change or do what ever is right. They have been well trained to do this. (this isn't the first thread on this).

      Third point: Only staff sees and gets the private messages and complaints from Donors and Parents of the kids on the server. The Parent Donors of the kids here keep this server running. They are the reason we are still here. They provide the funds necessary to run this server. Times have changed mick the player base has changed. We are providing a safe fun environment for kids as young as 8yrs old.
 

        Freedom does not mean you get to do what you want when you want. True Freedom means you do what is right. Using foul language in front of children is never ever right.


       Last point: The staff members here are human and they are not computers set on catching a single word, we chose not to make a specific rule on what words are not allowed due to this fact. The staff can judge who is on and make a decision on what language is allowed by their judgment.


This is my opinion on the subject other staff members will chime in if they feel it necessary.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by mickdude2 on 7/24/2014, 11:08 am

Taccy wrote:One PG-13 film I saw about 2 years ago was Total Recall. This film not only had the F word, but showed a topless lady with 3 breasts. There were 10 year olds in the cinema listening and watching all this (Great film btw). We always say we're PG-13 and I personally let F bombs be dropped as long as A) It's not directed at a person, country, race, etc. B) It's not overused. Saying something like "Oh f*** I just lost my days work to lava", whilst not needed, won't get a kick from me. However saying "F*** the Queen", whilst an interesting proposition, will get a kick. If players say they're uncomfortable with the language, then I expect players not to use it, the same way players would stop talking about a subject if it offends players. The situation you described (Assuming it wasn't used in an offensive context) would have been fine, IMO.

We have a lot of players saying it's PG-13, and others saying no swearing is allowed at all (Even 'minor' ones like Sh** and Bi***). I've sworn a few times and I've seen a lot of staff do it too. Heck, Mad's first words as Owner were "WHAT THE F***". I've taken the assumption it is PG-13 and think we do need to be clear and have some clarity on the matter, as we've allowed the F word for a while and I'm not sure when/if that changed.

And other staff are the exact opposite. Honestly, I think Oasis can handle more mature language, but I'm tired of seeing different staff enforcing different rules. As long as I've played here, we've been PG13 and the F word has been allowed in moderation, just like every other word. As far as I can see in the rules and in some staff behavior, this rule hasn't changed. It's only a few staff and a couple players that favor this all out ban.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by Gweedo358 on 7/24/2014, 11:45 am

I have been staff for almost 2 years ... Nobody has been allowed to drop the f bomb over and over around me. You are making this into a mountain when its not. You are not seeing the info I see. You don't get the msg's I get. 

Also I read what you did and why you got kicked last night. You waited till the staff member left but you didn't know the staff member logged back on.  That sir is sneaky...

You want to do what you want on the server. Sorry life doesn't work that way.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by Paxination on 7/24/2014, 3:45 pm

Gweedo358 wrote:We also have something called staff discretion its in the rules. If a staff member feels strongly about a situation they have the power and the right to change or do what ever is right. They have been well trained to do this. (this isn't the first thread on this).

Mick, this is the biggest point your missing. There is a reason for this rule. This rule is for us to do what WE THINK IS RIGHT AT A MOMENTS NOTICE WITH OUT HAVING TO MAKE A NEW RULE OR CHANGE ONE EVERYTIME WE TURN AROUND.

If a staff member knows that there are people on that will be offended by you using the fword one time, they can and have the right according to our rules to kick you or do what is neccessary.

Something my father use to tell me when I was younger that fits here....

JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO SOMETHING, DOESNT MEAN YOU SHOULD!

i've kicked for the fbomb, and i've warned players in chat. We have a younger audience on the server, and their parents are getting on now too. Unfortunately our rules state that if what your doing offends or ruines some ones elses playing experience, we can act accordingly. You dropping the Fbomb bothered some one last night. So it was dealt with.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by King Kiashi on 7/24/2014, 5:44 pm

If I may interject my opinion on this subject, I think Mick is onto something here. I’ve had some little issues with this in the past (though not for the f word or language in the context Mick describes) and it’s bothered me some too. I think there should be more set standards for things rather than being so flippant because it generates a lot of confusion and uncertainty when something is perfectly okay and normal and happy and yay no problems at all one moment and then the next it’s evil and horrible and awful and monstrous or something.  I agree that it’s disrespectful to charge into subjects that offend people, but I also think it’s equally disrespectful to expect everybody to walk on eggshells for you because you’re extremely oversensitive and take offense to pretty much every little thing, you know? Because it’s like putting yourself above others and imposing on people over something that doesn’t even actually hurt you and wasn’t even meant to be harmful; it just feels selfish to me. Of course there are situations where offense is legitimate, like sensitive topics that hit close to home and surface terrible memories or something, but not for little jokes or words or things that just had no ill will at all and just… I don’t’ understand why these things are such a big deal. If someone says the f word a few times, is anybody going to go into cardiac arrest if they see that word on the screen? Is it going to make them curl into a ball on the floor and sob their heart out? Why does it matter so much? It is a mere string of sounds, four letters that in today’s society are spoken everywhere every day that are simply an intense exclamation of displeasure/discontent. If it isn’t directed towards anybody as an insulting statement and is merely used for the purposes of expressing displeasure, then I don’t see what anybody has to be offended about when it doesn’t affect them and is in essence a communication of unhappiness; how is someone being unhappy hurt you? It doesn’t make logical sense.

Culturally the word is thought to be crude, but crudeness isn’t inherently offensive in nature since it’s not necessarily meant maliciously/insultingly. While I typically don’t resort to such speakery myself save for some frustrating occasions I don’t tell other people not to do it themselves, because it doesn’t hurt anybody.

The fact of the matter is, is that if nobody ever spoke of anything that could possibly ever offend someone in any, way, shape, or form, or to any degree, then nobody would talk about anything ever, when you think about it. You can’t please everyone. And we don’t know who’s online all the time necessarily, we aren’t personally acquainted with everyone on the server and are aware of all their likes and dislikes and subjects they’d rather not speak of or their age levels, for that matter. If the server if PG-13, then that definition  would essentially mean that it’s a server that caters towards people 13 years or older. If we are housing children under the age of 13, then the server isn’t really PG-13 anymore, now is it? Thus a PG rating would be more appropriate given the audience, and all of this shall be rendered unacceptable. But by the standards of PG-13, then it doesn’t really match up logically.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s necessarily fine and dandy for us to all suddenly go all gangster and swear every other word, but a little bit of it here and there wouldn’t be jarring and murderous and awful, would it? Nobody is saying we should say the f word over and over and over again all the time; I don‘t understand why that seems to be the interpretation.

If there are children present, then of course the situation is different as we culturally have an inclination to protect them from such things, but as I said before, there being children around kind of changes everything and it’s not PG-13. But we don’t all know who these kids are, how are we going to solve that confusion?

I just think there has to be a more reliable system to going about this subject than ‘it’s okay but it’s not okay’. Some more steadfast standards would be helpful in knowing how to conduct ourselves and when.

This is all merely my opinion and I’m not saying you have to agree with any of this, just felt as if I had something to contribute to the conversation and I at least hope my words are being considered. And hopefully not horribly misinterpreted. Oh dear. To clarify any miscommunication, it is not my intention to inflict harm upon any individual, just so you know, and I do not wish for chaos. Just a better way of knowing how to communicate, in essence.

Also, I have this dread that you guys are going to yell at me and act all aggressive and forceful like your posts are kind of appearing to me now, so I would just like to say that I’d really prefer it if everybody was polite and calm and more passive/objective/quieter because that kind of tone frightens me, my apoligies.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by FerociousFeline on 7/24/2014, 7:39 pm

I feel like everyone had made alot of valid points...
      I honestly feel like on after hours it should be looser/come back.Given the reason that those kids of eight or ten and so on are not online. They are in bed. We then dont have to cater to the younger ones and can relax and have grown up mature fun with each other. 
     During the day when i want to talk about sex, dirty jokes, cursing, i msg the person and we talk about it but to ourselves. Keeps us out of trouble and we can still talk about it. I do that not out of respect but of curtious, to the younger players who are on. 
     Where as with topics such as abortion, gay marriage, religion, politics, that stuff get heated and FAST adult or not.Topics such as those listed above i think should stick to being in a party msg or /msg and people who want to debate that can debate that in private because it will just cause a flaming war, and the last thing we all want is for that to happen. Topics like rape, or suicide (etc) is sensitive because we dont know if someone among our community has been through that themselves and are sensitive in which case id not blame them for telling me to shut my yap. 
             
      I loved that we had tighter rules for the day when younger players/parents were on, and then had after hours for the older generation to kick back and loosen up a bit. Thats my stance since i find truth and personally agree with both sides.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by FairyNinjaStar on 7/24/2014, 8:12 pm

mickdude2 wrote:
Definition of PG13 wrote:PG-13 indicates there's material in the film that may not be suitable for children under the age of 13. A PG-13 movie could go "beyond the PG rating in theme, violence, nudity, sensuality, language, adult activities or other elements, but does not reach the restricted R category." The MPAA will give this rating to films with drug use or more than brief nudity, although the nudity in a PG-13 is not sexual in nature. In addition, the MPAA states "there may be depictions of violence in a PG-13 movie, but generally not both realistic and extreme or persistent violence. A motion picture's single use of one of the harsher sexually-derived words, though only as an expletive, initially requires at least a PG-13 rating."

Oasis' interpretation wrote:No more than one swear word. Absolutely no harsher sexually derived words, even as an expletive. Absolutely no discussion concerning sensuality, nudity, or language.

Yes, I'm bringing this up, and yes, I feel like it needs to be discussed, rather than swept under the rug and hushed up. 

Fidel and I were recently reminiscing about the old days, and having a good conversation too. We did, however, let slip 'f***'. We were immediately blasted for 'foul language'. Now, I would understand if we said this in front of a small child, and would probably apologize, but this was between two friends, and the only other active person at the time was Rigo, who he himself pointed out, was 16 and mature. This has become an increasingly risque topic recently, and staff refuse to address it directly, so I'm doing it here.

First off, the above quotes. PG13 means something vastly different then how its interpreted here. So, I'm proposing we change our server rating from PG13 to PG- not only to better define our rules, but also to make it clear to players.

Ok Mick, While I do agree with you about there needing to be more continuity with the rules, I also think you are making too big a deal out of that incident the other night. Here is my take on the situation.

First of all, it's at the director/screenwriters discretion how much profanity (if any) is used. I've seen PG-13 movies that push cussing rule as far as they can, and I've seen PG-13 movies that had no profanity at all. So, really, for this analogy, look at staff as the directors, who control what goes on in chat (or the "script").

And yes, there are some staff/players that are offended by any kind of swearing. This doesn't just apply to children. I'm 34 years old and I am offended by excessive foul language. The problem is, we are on a server with all kinds of different players from different walks of life and different moral standards. What is OK to some may not be OK to others, and that's why the rules have to be situational. If you want to be able to chat freely, talk in private chat, party chat, or on teamspeak or skype. What I don't understand is, with so many chat options, why does everything have to be discussed in general chat, especially when its a one-sided conversation between 2 people? I'm just saying...

Now, I wasn't personally offended by your one time use of the F-bomb, tbh. (I was there too btw, I just chose not to say anything in chat because it wasn't my place and staff was handling it). You got a warning from staff, but what I saw as the problem wasn't  you cussing as much as that you had an attitude and basically argued back. Which to me is disrespecting a staff member. If another staff person is OK with your use of the F-bomb, it's irrelevant to the situation because they aren't there, you are dealing with whoever is currently on acting as staff and what they say goes, whether you personally agree with it or not.

Really, I don't see anything wrong with getting a warning. Nobody is psychic, for all anyone knew you could have kept on cussing or saying whatever, so you were given a warning. That particular staff person didn't like the F-bomb. I really don't see what your issue is, other than...you don't want to have to edit yourself at all. That's just my opinion, correct me if I'm wrong.

There seems to be an attitude from some players that Oasis is "PG by day" and "Rated R" by night (or when staff isn't around). There are players from other countries who play during "oasis after dark" and it's daytime for them, and they could very well be young. To me, that's a major issue and people need to consider that, especially because it's summer time. If it is staff's choice to keep it PG-13, I respect that decision. However, just because it's PG-13 does that mean we all need to push the line and try to get away with as much as possible?

I wish for Oasis to be a pleasant, peaceful place for players of all ages and locations to be able to enjoy themselves. Is it too much to ask to use a little discretion in chat? I know I do, I try to be very careful of what I say. Sure, people will still be offended sometimes because we're all human and not perfect, and there's never going to be a time when you can please everyone. But, we can at least try and be respectful of other players and think before we type. I don't always agree with staff's decisions and responses in every situation, but it's not my place to publicly question their authority; I'm just happy that there is staff around to help keep the peace.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by Shnoork on 7/24/2014, 8:34 pm

I would like to point out here that, in essence, this really does benefit everyone as a flexible rule. It is a simple matter of good taste, as said above. Up until now, everyone seems to agree that there is a time and place for these things. Rather than argue in circles, lets take a moment to realize that THAT is the EXACT SYSTEM we use currently. If somebody takes offense to something that is said, there is nothing you can do about it but respect that, as is even stated in the rules. If staff notifies you that your current language is innapropriate, its because they know the audience currently online. It all boils down to tolerence, people. If you can go an hour without swearing profusely, you can go a day.

And again, as I said previously, the PG/PG13 rating means nothing in this case. The people of this server have not been individually rated by the ESRB, so you really cant put a rating on it. That rating does, however, demand a certain standard. It can be broken, it can be maintained, but in all actuallity is nothing but a "recomendation" which everyone expects everyone else to uphold. You cant predict individual human behavior and this IS a group of people, not a movie, so naturally there will be slip ups. It would seem that that would be the reason staff has been lenient up until this point, simply because they like us :3

But by all means, if you all want to convince staff to crack down on the rules, be my guest. All I know is I like some leniency.

A little addition: I had typed this up when I got a phone call, a while before Fairys post. Ive looked it over and would just like to say if Ive repeated anything she has said, its because I felt the same way. And also I dont want to rewrite any of this.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by biocreeper187 on 7/24/2014, 8:42 pm

FerociousFeline wrote:I feel like everyone had made alot of valid points...
      I honestly feel like on after hours it should be looser/come back.Given the reason that those kids of eight or ten and so on are not online. They are in bed. We then dont have to cater to the younger ones and can relax and have grown up mature fun with each other. 
     
^ Problem W/ That Is Timezones

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by FerociousFeline on 7/24/2014, 8:53 pm

biocreeper187 wrote:
FerociousFeline wrote:I feel like everyone had made alot of valid points...
      I honestly feel like on after hours it should be looser/come back.Given the reason that those kids of eight or ten and so on are not online. They are in bed. We then dont have to cater to the younger ones and can relax and have grown up mature fun with each other. 
     
^ Problem W/ That Is Timezones
 I have yet to run into an 8 yr old when its three am in tx. None the less i stand by what i said at the end everyone has had valid points and agree with both sides.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by Guest on 7/24/2014, 9:02 pm

Ariley92 wrote:c. Respect
We ask that you exhibit a level of respect that would be expected from you in person. This includes respecting other players as well as Staff members. Please respect the authority of the staff members because they generally know what they're talking about. Also, the use of racial slurs or other extremely offensive language/behavior is strictly prohibited.

Events from last night where simple.
You dropped an fbomb.
Rigo commented on it.
Mega saw you used it, and kicked you for it.
I logged on, and gave a warning that it wouldn't be tolerated.
Why did I do that? Because mega saying to stop should've been enough of a reason to stop, without backtalk and excuses like "old oasis was this and that" and "Well talk to krazo vit or leagle then mega" .

But apparently, it's not. No, we have to make the server PG to justify our staff discretion to issue any kind of warning or kick when someone isn't comfortable with chat. It's called discretion for a reason. It's not going to be black and white. If it was, we'd need a rule for every little tiny piece of crap issue someone comes up with. Let's list every single horrible word and put them into categories of what we can and cannot say.
You want a 1000page rulebook? I don't.

"Well talk to krazo vit or leagle then mega" was your response to mega's warning.
Well maybe in their discretion it was allowed at the times that they are on to judge whether it was allowed or not. That doesn't mean I or any other staff has to allow it when we see others uncomfortable with it, or are uncomfortable with it ourselves.

And off topic, but for future reference, if Oasis ever goes back to what was displayed in this lovely thread that either you or fidel linked us to last night to represent "old oasis", I will be leaving. I stayed here because it's a respectful community, unlike the one I was accustomed to.
http://oasis-smp.forumotion.com/t5449-the-official-fidel52-thread?highlight=the+official

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by Heisenberg on 7/24/2014, 9:21 pm

Playing staff off each other is a dangerous road that leads to a very dead end.

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Re: 'PG13' server

Post by Paxination on 7/24/2014, 9:22 pm

Lina wrote:But apparently, it's not. No, we have to make the server PG to justify our staff discretion to issue any kind of warning or kick when someone isn't comfortable with chat. It's called discretion for a reason. It's not going to be black and white. If it was, we'd need a rule for every little tiny piece of crap issue someone comes up with. Let's list every single horrible word and put them into categories of what we can and cannot say.
You want a 1000page rulebook? I don't.

This right here, we dont need a new rule for every little thing that happens on the server. That is the whole point of STAFF DISCRETION. If we made a rule for every little thing that happened on the server, it would become a very very boring place. And not to mention just having to read the rules.....screw that. Our current set of rules is perfect the way they are. We dont need to modify or add new rules. We have sections in there that have a broad range of issues that apply to it. Like the issues with TS and sound boards, falls under chat ettiquet. At least in my opinion. No need to add or modify them. Just need to make better use of our current set and pay more attention to them.

As it is now I am going to lock this topic now as I believe enough has been said. If you feel like you need to get more off your chest feel free to pm me here or on skype.

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Paxination
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